Pundit ClaimsAI claims by Gary Marcus and Ed Zitron, with the evidence

“If any of these lawsuits prevail, it would be calamitous for OpenAI and Anthropic, and even more so for Google and Meta, whose Gemini and Llama models use datasets including millions of artists' work, mostly because it's "virtually impossible" for AI models to forget training data, meaning that they'd need to be retrained from scratch, which would cost billions of dollars and dramatically reduce their efficacy at tasks they're already not particularly good at.”

The Subprime AI Crisis, paragraph 58. The full statement is at the source.

Our reading, the sentence that was checked:

If any of these copyright lawsuits prevail, it would be calamitous for OpenAI and Anthropic and even more so for Google and Meta, mostly because models can't practically forget training data and would need costly retraining from scratch that would cost billions and dramatically reduce their efficacy.

Assessment: Unresolved No deadline stated on 2026-10-29 Evidence as of

Where and when Ed Zitron wrote it

Where's Your Ed At, The Subprime AI Crisis, paragraph 58.

Said
Source observed
live page, full text, public
Evidence as of
the cutoff for this assessment
Assessment recorded
assessment wyea-subprimeai-9a294c-a2

We recorded 50 claims from this post. See every claim from this post.

The wording above is the version this site observed on 2026-10-28. The source may have been edited after 2024-09-16. This page does not claim the wording was captured then.

What the claim commits to

Kind
Conditional forecast
Deadline, as the speaker wrote it
None stated. This site does not add one.
Deadline state when assessed
No deadline stated
Deadline state on 2026-10-29
No deadline stated (the release’s reference date)

Conditions

  • if any of these lawsuits prevail (antecedent, stated by the speaker)

From the speaker

  • If any of these lawsuits prevail
  • calamitous for OpenAI and Anthropic
  • even more so for Google and Meta
  • retrained from scratch
  • cost billions of dollars
  • dramatically reduce their efficacy

Our interpretation

  • The preceding discussion makes a plaintiff victory establishing copyright liability for model training the relevant trigger. Surviving dismissal is insufficient.
  • The nearest referent is the litigation involving Stability AI, DeviantArt and Midjourney. Whether the phrase also includes every copyright case mentioned in the post is unclear.
  • A settlement concerning acquisition of pirated books does not automatically establish the stated training-liability trigger.
  • The practical prediction requires evidence of mandatory complete retraining, its cost, and substantial capability losses. A financial penalty alone does not establish that chain.

Counts as supported if: A qualifying plaintiff victory leads to mandatory retraining from scratch, documented multibillion-dollar retraining costs, substantial capability losses, and the claimed severe consequences for the named developers.

Counts as contradicted if: After a qualifying victory, a final remedy and documented implementation establish that the affected models can continue operating without the predicted complete retraining and capability losses.

Retrospective: these criteria were written after the outcome was public.

Current assessment

Did the forecast come true?

Outcome: Unresolved

The record was checked, and the evidence available by the cutoff does not settle it.

Scored on a plain reading. The speaker named no measure for this claim, so it was judged on the reading an informed reader would take, stated below under our interpretation. Both reviews had to find that reading fair.

Evidence as of
Deadline state when assessed
No deadline stated
Assessment recorded
Policy version
2026-10-28.7

Rationale

The February 10, 2026 Andersen order resolved a discovery dispute, without establishing copyright liability for model training [e1]. A case tracker reviewed on October 12, 2026 described the case as active and reported further discovery [e2]. The July 20, 2026 Anthropic settlement approval rejected model-deletion requests as outside the settlement's scope and provided for destruction of pirated works [e3]. That settlement does not establish the required merits victory on training liability [e3]. The supplied evidence therefore establishes neither the qualifying victory nor the implemented remedy needed to assess the predicted complete retraining, multibillion-dollar costs, capability losses and business consequences [e1] [e2] [e3].

Limitations

  • The claim specifies no deadline and does not exhaustively identify the covered lawsuits.
  • The later Andersen status comes from a secondary tracker rather than a complete court docket [e2].
  • The settlement order does not establish remedy implementation following a qualifying training-liability judgment [e3].
  • The packet provides no matching retraining expenditures, before-and-after capability measurements or comparative business consequences for the named developers.

Evidence (3 items)

  • Context only: U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California,

    No further responses

    Why it matters here: This order resolves discovery responses in Andersen. It does not establish copyright liability or order model retraining.

    Publisher
    U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California
    Kind of source
    Regulatory filing
    Describes events of
    Public from
  • Context only: AI Lawsuit Tracker,

    further discovery questions

    Why it matters here: The later status summary still describes discovery and pending merits proceedings. This supports withholding a finding that the required plaintiff victory occurred.

    Publisher
    AI Lawsuit Tracker
    Kind of source
    Secondary summary
    Describes events of
    Public from
  • Context only: U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California,

    These requests

    Why it matters here: The court rejected requests including deletion of Anthropic's models; the settlement instead includes destruction of pirated works. This challenges treating every plaintiff recovery as necessarily requiring model destruction, but does not establish the narrower training-liability trigger.

    Publisher
    U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California
    Kind of source
    Regulatory filing
    Describes events of
    Public from

What would settle it

A qualifying merits victory establishing copyright liability for model training, followed by a final remedy and sufficiently complete implementation showing whether complete retraining was required, its cost, capability changes and consequences for OpenAI, Anthropic, Google and Meta.

Where it was said (1)

Said once in the sources this register covers.

  • : Where's Your Ed At, The Subprime AI Crisis

    If any of these lawsuits prevail, it would be calamitous for OpenAI and Anthropic, and even more so for Google and Meta, whose Gemini and Llama models use datasets including millions of artists' work, mostly because it's "virtually impossible" for AI models to forget training data, meaning that they'd need to be retrained from scratch, which would cost billions of dollars and dramatically reduce their efficacy at tasks they're already not particularly good at.

    Published
    2024-09-16
    Source observed
    , live page
    Access
    full text, public

History

Assessment versions

Recorded events

  1. Assessment publishedBy this site

    First assessment published after both reviews and the final-text check passed.

    About assessment wyea-subprimeai-9a294c-a2.

  2. HeldBy this site

    Both reviews say forecast_outcome/open_horizon/unresolved; the drafted assessment says forecast_outcome/open_horizon/not_adjudicable.

    About assessment wyea-subprimeai-9a294c-a1, which was not published.